Veronica Belmont has just been asked by Robert Scoble, in public via FriendFeed, to prove she has not paid Twitter to be listed in their highly valuable ‘Suggested User’ list!
In the past couple of weeks, Veronica’s follower numbers have almost doubled. As Veronica fronts a number of tech shows, including Tekzilla and Qore (for Sony’s PS3 Network), these followers are potential viewers. As such, they are of high value for advertisers / sponsors of her shows.
Here’s a selection of the very heated, very public row between Veronica and Robert on FriendFeed.
Veronica Belmont
I’m on the list, and I certainly don’t have $10,000 to give anyone. Do you think I somehow bribed them, Robert? Hmm?
Rober Scoble
I am not on the list. Neither is @leolaporte. We both had more followers than you did (and more than many on the list). Now I am wondering.
Veronica Belmont
HAH! This is the funniest thing I’ve heard all day. Are you really just that bored this afternoon to accuse people of spending money to be on a suggested users list? #1 As Chris says, who the frak cares. #2 Do you honestly think someone like me or iJustine have that kind of money? #3 Wow, man, I thought we were cool.
Robert Scoble
I do not know why Veronica is on the list and not @leolaporte so now I am wondering what is going on and no one can prove money and gifts did not get exchanged.
Veronica Belmont
Robert, your inflammatory remarks and accusations (and they are that, no matter how many times you tell us to READ CAREFULLY) come off as really childish and insulting. If you have an issue with a feature of Twitter, there are better ways of pointing it out than accusing people who considered you acquaintances, if not pals.
Robert Scoble
Veronica: you did receive a gift. Advertising is sold by 1,000 viewers. Ask Ryan how much 1,000 people are worth. You did NOT earn that gift by any objective measure.
Twitter needs to listen
Scoble makes a good point about the way Twitter has selected who gets onto that recommended list. It’s not based on popularity; or he and Leo Laporte would indeed have been on the list as they were both ranked higher than her and are better known.
Whether anyone has paid money is (in my opinion) pretty unlikely, but the process is based too much on the buddy network. This sucks and needs to be fixed. Calling out Veronica Belmont in this very public way is GREAT for bringing the problem to people’s attention, but it’s not the kind of thing I would associate with Veronica. The reason she reacted like she did, is because she’s the last person who would do anything like that.
It’s not ‘just’ Scoble that’s annoyed. The LA Times wrote this.
What do you think?
Should there even be a suggested follower list on Twitter and if so, should there be a better way to decide who gets listed there? Let us know!
No related posts.
maybe, Robert, they don’t let JERKASSES on the list, maybe that’s why you’re not there.
I’m also not on the list – and a jerkass. I think you might be onto something ;)
i don’t think Veronica Belmont would do anything as shady as this, but there is something very wrong with that list, who the hell is this Alison at number 2 on the list, following 2 people but nearly 60000 followers or someecards following 4 but over 74000 followers?
Scoble is wrong to call Veronica out like this if he dose not have anything to back it up, but that is what he likes to do at the weekend , start bitchmemes on twitter.
I think the bigger question is the fact that 10′s of 1000′s of these followers appear just to be made up accounts following only people rotated on that list, I mentioned this on Twitter about a week ago!
As a chat with a colleague brought to my attention if these are spam accounts and there are ALOT!!!! then someone with access to these tens of thousands of accounts if not kept in check (which no-one is doing btw!) could cause a bloody big headache and shut Twitter down!
If they have a script to make the accounts then it wont be too difficult to setup a script to tweet from them all at once, instant Twitter Chaos?
IMHO not one of these people are guilty or have anything to do with this mass following, something else is afoot here!
Thoughts?
Well…
I’m not on the list so I would have to say that it’s a complete waste of time and bandwidth…lol.
On a more serious note, is it really a big enough deal for it to be suspected of “corruption”?… do people really pay attention to it?
I’m not trying to imply that they don’t, just that I have personally never looked there, so have never followed anyone based on the recommendation, which makes me think there will be a whole bunch of other people who had never heard of it either…
If it is a virtual muscle flex of those who are connected, I’m sure the people who matter or who it is aimed at impressing, will see this and show respect (or lack of) for the list accordingly.
Peace
Jay
I knew there was a reason I didn’t follow this guy. When I search around, he is always suggested to me, and in the back of my mind I keep thinking, “yeah, but I don’t follow him for some reason, even if I don’t remember what it is.”
I don’t remember the specifics of disliking him initially, but this is a fine enough example. This sort of complete nonsense is just the sort of thing he throws out to whip up some ridiculous controversy.
Prove you aren’t paying them? That’s ludicrous in the extreme. What would you offer up as proof? The whole thing is just nonsense to get his name out even more.
Marc,
You are right about trying to prove a negative. How could Veronica or anyone on that list prove they didn’t do anything? Should be down to Scoble to prove they did. His point about a lack of transparency IS valid though, IMHO. How did they pick these people – because the fact it, it has massively added to their follower numbers.
Some great points here.
Roger is right, I noticed all those spam accounts following the most followed twitter users. Literally pages and pages of brown boxes with weird numeric usernames.
I also agree with Roger and Jay, there’s surely no way anyone here’s paid anyone for anything. I assume it’s a mix of the buddy network and a few others ‘for flavour.’
Veronica’s commented here a few times in the past and is very quick to respond to any suggestions of wrong doing. I think she took Scoble’s bait too quickly. The original question Scoble asked was about Techcrunch. He never actually mentioned Veronica, until she joined the FriendFeed debate.
I dunno, I think it’s just a case of twitter envy. :-). That aside, Scoble is doing what he does, finding an issue and being inflamitory in order to get readers/subscribers. That’s his job. It’s too bad he did this and attacked someone like @Veronica, bad form Robert, bad form.
Scoble is famous to be right, but I’ve to doubt that Veronica is paying in order to be recommended by Twitter, some reasons are the fact that most of the people on the list don’t and won’t pay to get recommended, I think that the suggestions are based on famous people and websites, that way Twitter would get more exposure and really show that the service is that it is getting popular, and I don’t think Veronica would have that much money anyways, Robert Scoble needs to have some evidence, something that we can see, because if that’s true, Veronica’s credibility would be destroyed, that’s it.
I just find this whole situation very disturbing and really sad. I may not know as much about twitter recommendations and their value as these people, but I do know the value of presuming innocence until proven guilty.
This is coming off like a “my dad is bigger than your dad” playground squabble, only it has real world consequences for everyone involved.
Reminds me of McCarthyism to an extent. That’s kinda scary.
This is the suggested twitter list isnt it?
http://twitter.com/invitations/suggestions
Looking at the list is got a few big names on it, MC Hammer, Number 10 Downing Street and of course Veronica. So the questiopn seems to be more “how is the list created?” rather than whos on it.
If you have to pay, is that so bad? Twitter needs to make money as well!
But I think someone here raised the point about “Alison”. Who the hell is she indeed and to be frank, who the hell cares. Something strange is going in in regards this, but Scoble hasn’t approached it correctly. Rather than collectively raising the issue and having the truth come out he has let annoyance get the better of him in this case (and indeed maybe some frustration and envy, who knows).
Also shouldn’t the list of suggested users, if its not based on financial contributions, be created based on an algorithim, such as the users details, their sector and bio to give them immediate access to relevant and quality associates to get them started, eg location specific, industry speciifc or such, not the number of followers they already have.
Christ its Sunday morning, why am i writing this and not dealing with a deadly hangover… suppose its interesting enough to get by the hangover!
Justin,
I see it the same as you – the issue is ‘how is that list created.’ Unless this story gets a stack of publicity, Twitter won’t say a thing. They seem only to react or respond when something’s too big to ignore. Like last weeks story about them charging companies for business Twitter accounts.
Good luck with the hangover!
I also agree with Justin. I got sucked into reading Scoble’s whole Friendfeed thread on this. Yeah, I think I want my Sunday morning back as well.
I think this also shows that followers mean money to some and when money is involved it starts getting rough. It kind of hit me yesterday when I saw a post on Daringfireball.net about John Gruber’s sponsorships becoming available in May. You can sponsor a week of his feeds for something like $2,500. It seems like a lot of money, but then they gotta make a living from this.
It’s all fun and games with twitter numbers and RSS followers in good times, but we may be seeing a real fight for what numbers and dollars are left as the economy reshuffles itself.
I wouldn’t be surprised if there are folks out there that try to game the system, and I guess we shouldn’t be surprised when those who are playing the game start calling foul (even though it sounds more like kids in a playground).
As someone with numbers next to nothing, I’m more concerned at this point with just trying to generate good, regular content.
But I’ll agree with Scoble at one point is this strange post. Followers are a gift. When you get people coming back, that’s a sign you’re at least doing something right.
Good topic to bring up Jim.
Thanks Greg!
Robert Scoble comes off as the bastahd he admits he is in these discussions. I never heard of any proof. The undertone of his accusations seems to be: why wasn’t I on the list? I had more followers than you! I deserve it. Now he’s back on the “number of followers doesn’t matter” train. I suspect it’s because his followers are slipping or others are surpassing him. It’s a convenient psychological trick to disengage the ego from a metric you secretly believe is important, but are trying to tell yourself doesn’t matter.
You all need to read MUCH more carefully. I never accused ANYONE of anything. What I did accuse something of is Twitter is at fault for building a corruptible feature. This feature is SUBJECTIVE. It rewards people with 10s of thousands of followers (and that’s in the first week, so this feature will eventually mean millions of followers for someone like Veronica and means punishment for someone like Leo Laporte — he’s not on the list because he has publicly fought with Twitter before). This feature ruins the integrity of the Twitter follower #s. It is a gift to certain people. Why did they get that gift? Is it because they are nice? Is it because they play footsie with Ev or Biz? We do not know because they are not transparent with how they chose the people on this list (and they are not consistent, some people who are on this list were popular, others are brands, others are on here for some reason I can’t figure out, like the ones other commenters have pointed out here). I wrote a second post this morning after taking the evening away and getting some more perspective: http://friendfeed.com/e/df663be1-8277-457f-a2ca-fae55fca4520/Last-night-I-bought-into-the-meme-that-s-of/
This is Robert wondering why he isn’t on some list because he’s using Twitter on the fringe and gathering so many users. He thinks he deserves this, but its not about number of followers.
LOOK:
Twitter is a BRAND. Twitter wants to reflect that their users are hip, cool, and varied in their abilities. Twitter, being a social network and a tech based company wants to reflect that they have popular users and more importantly… (sorry ladies) male & FEMALE users. I’m not saying Veronica got picked because she was female, I’m saying they naturally would pick Veronica over Scoble because Scoble, while a nice guy, is (how do I say this) a stereotypical nerd. He is slightly overweight, obsessed with social networking, and extremely tech oriented. A normal person wanting to sign up for twitter (for example, a young male/female tech savvy designer in college) may be looking for more people to follow than just her friends. She looks at the suggested… will she be more apt to follow and be interested in Scoble or Veronica? [A guy sees a girl who's host of tech stuff for PS3, he follows. A girl sees a confident, funny host of tech programming who seems popular on twitter, she also follows. I doubt that either would be apt to follow Scoble in the same instance.]
Twitter is just doing what they’re supposed to: build user base and show off the users of the brand. Veronica, keep doing what you’re doing, you’re more than the clear. Scoble, stop making whiny accusations because you want followers. Both sides of this spat should take no offense from twitter’s actions either, its just business.
Unless I’m reading this wrong, I think what Robert is suggesting is that there’s an obvious flaw in how Twitter allocate these positions based on their friends.
In the LA Times article, they quote Twitter’s Biz Stone:
These so-called ‘staff picks’ are producing thousands of dollars worth of advertising traffic – Important enough to make or break a businesses right now. Biz is either extremely naive or deliberately bullshitting. I suspect the latter, though looking at how long it’s taking him to figure out a business plan, who knows?
I think the list is a recommended list where experts and rising quality social people should belong not just social media figure. :)
So, this has grown to something a bit ridiculous since last night. Scoble never started out by accusing me personally. I saw his original post and took affront to the fact that he was inferring some kind of wrongdoing by the people on the suggested friends list (which would be someone like me, Felicia Day, MC Hammer, a bunch of musicians I don’t know, etc…).
This is one of those exhausting discussions that really has no good conclusion. I’m sorry that I took Scoble’s bait, because this is exactly what he wants.
Veronica,
Hey, thanks for stopping by the blog. The story only REALLY became a story when you got involved. No one’s suggested here or elsewhere, that you or any of the other people on the list did anything wrong. The way the list has been based on buddies of the Twitter team is what’s pissed a lot of people off.
“Twitter needs to listen” o.O
Really? That’s all the F they do.
Can they build THEIR company?
Hm, maybe we should all go on serial- and I do mean methodical
rants at this blog. Or at friendfeed? Or at what Scoble is doing wrong.
Oh wait- Scoble decides this day, while twiddling his thumbs, waiting
to take his wife to Denn’ys-north-of the border,
‘I think I’ll stir the pot to stay on the radar, er,
um, I meant be a journalista.
Scoble says:
This IS the day I command Twitter to address the suggested follows list!
Tough shit.
Evan Williams- by decree, we here by order you to drop API review with Alex!
(that Scoble was previously ranting about in defending his investment,
er, I mean friends, at friendfeed.)
We here by order you to call Kevin Thau in on over the weekend!
We don’t care if you each owe your families some hours!
How dare you see your wife and kids
when the suggestion list isn’t right because ahem, Scoble
isn’t on it, er, I mean Leo Laporte- as Scoble complains.
Screw the mobile growth Scoble was ranting about before that dammit!
He must rule Twitter not just completely own friendfeed!
If Biz would kiss his ass like Bret Taylor, he’d PAY the $10,000!
I digress, Twitter can put off “monetizing”, as Scoble ragged about
even prior to the last prior, just fix the all important list!!
Jack can hold the board meeting AFTER they add Scoble and Laporte,
and who else Seagate maybe?
Wait- When do they scale and stabilize?
As our guy blindsided them about before that, (all Summer long)
er, I mean journalismed, “Twitter is dead” with all these failwhales.
Fuck the failwhales! The owner of friendfeed, er, I mean
friendfeed’s homecoming king, isn’t ahead of Barack yet on Twitter!
Fix the list! Forget scaling! The list! iScoble.
Call Fred Wilson! He’s the smartest guy in the whole picture!
Surely he’ll fix the farking list.
Fred defers to Howard Lindzon, who who says
“StockTwits is the list that matter $$” and he’s more right.”
Give Chris Brogan two places on the list.
He’s taught tens of thousands how to pull their heads
out of their wastebaskets, without being a prick.
Okay, so he’s human, at least he’s not bipolar on a big stage!
Hey I want credit (money) from Tony Robbins!
I showed @Ev he was the real deal.
Yes I did!
I think I should be on their list.
Could you please Retweet that?
Me or TED, or both.
And if my pro-twitter,
less than groveling at ff or scoble or the Left Coast is,
not suddenly ‘lost’ on friendfeed -again- please “like” it if and when it gets there?
Thanks,
@Ed
PS- The overworked team at Twitter, is group of very kind, thoughtful
human beings. They have sacrificed every single day for years, to
reach out personally, above and beyond their job duties.
They’ve taken a beating in public over and over again.
But before you decide to be angry and jealous like Robert because his sponsors are dying, while these kids have people begging them to take $35,000,000,
I can witness this: @Ev @Crystal @Jack, @Biz were forever burning their
time for other people, strangers, years before there was millions of dollars, and millions of users.
Two issues here:
1. the “tempest in a teacup” between Scoble and Veronica
2. the “real” issue of suggested follows
I looked at that list. Some, I understood (the NY Times, @iJustine). Others I didn’t (JetBlue? who cares other than customers? @AFineFrenzy? No bio, follows only 2, few updates).
I agree with Jim Connolly above (comment #19). There’s an obvious flaw in how Twitter allocates these so-called ’staff picks’.
Scoble is mostly off-base on this. Is something strange and unanswered going on with Twitter? Undoubtedly!
But demanding that Veronica prove that she did NOT pay Twitter is pure bait. It’s the old “When did you stop beating your wife?” Question. How the hell is she supposed to prove a negative like that? Give Scoble all of her personal financial information? Why not demand that she hand over all user names and passwords.
This is Scoble at his pompous worst.
No actually, Robert doesn’t make a good point. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim. Scoble at his pompous worst indeed. Seems more likely that they rotate popular users.
Mouse,
Thanks for the comment. The good point I referred to, was that Twitter’s Biz Stone admitted to giving these places to his staff’s favourites. NOT that Robert was right to accuse anyone (he said in these comments he didn’t, but he did!) I agree with you that the proof needs to be put up by Robert. How can anyone claim they didn’t do anything? Robert – I’m pretty sure you went nutz that evening!
When I signed up to Twitter, my bio simply read “Not all smart poppies are tall poppies. Capiche?” – a tongue in cheek reference to my blogs at wordpress.
As time went by and I either followed suggested people or deleted them from the list, I found that those who were left had the word “tall”, “smart” or “poppy/poppies” in their bio. None of them particularly interesting, either and all with very few followers; few tweets and just not active.
Changed my bio and suddenly got a whole load of much more interesting, higher ranked people to look at and follow if I wished – so, obviously there is some comparisions made within the suggested people’s bios to look for a degree of compatability.
I don’t suggest this is the total answer – but it certainly made a huge difference to those twitter members actually offered as suggested followers.
Just something to consider. I don’t have a huge following – less than 500 – but my Tweeter Grading is in the higher 90′s.
Lesley
you twits need to get a fricken life.
you can tell scobledoo doesnt have one.
what a complete waste of space!
Whole thing very depressing.
I’m sure you’ll both get loads more followers out of it tho, so doubles all round! hurrah!